Transcript: STABLE NH

JENN: Hi. This is Jenn Pineo and Sylvia Pelletier, and we’re here for New Hampshire Family Voices podcast series. Today we’re joined by Chuck Saia, Executive Director of New Hampshire’s Governor’s Commission on Disability, and Bill Dwyer, the New Hampshire State Treasurer, for a discussion about the ABLE Savings Program for individuals with disabilities. Thank you both for joining us.

SYLVIA:  For Listener’s who may not be familiar, can you provide a bit of history about the ABLE?

CHUCK:  Thank you Sylvia for the question, and I’d like to thank both you and Jenn for inviting Bill and I to this podcast. This is a great opportunity for the State of New Hampshire, and again to have advocates like yourself who are front and center on the Community with Disabilities. We thank you for partnering with us. Just a very quick, Reader’s Digest version, as I would say, regarding ABLE. The Achieving a Better Life Experience Act was enacted in 2014. That’s a federal piece of legislation that was signed into law by President Obama. Essentially what it does, it creates tax advantage investment accounts for individuals with disabilities. So that was in 2014. That’s when the federal legislation came into being. But like anything, there is a piece of history even prior to 2014 from what has been told to me, for at least 10 years prior to 2014 literally there were advocates, and families, and groups of individuals that sat around the kitchen table trying to figure out what can we do to help our child, our sibling, our friend with a disability when we get older. Of course they tried to — they looked at the College Savings Plan, which is known as the 529 Plan under the Internal Revenue code, and they said we need something that can help us invest without losing benefits that we’re currently receiving. So the long and short of it, we fast forward it to 2014 and we get at the federal level, the Achieving Better Life Experience Act. I will tell you from the position I sit, the most — from the Governor’s Commission on Disability, we look at legislation, the most powerful piece of legislation is the American’s with Disabilities Act, because that was truly what leveled the playing field when we looked at and said, you know this is really a civil rights issue if you have a disability you cannot be discriminated upon because of your disability. When we look at ABLE, it literally heralds and compliments the 529 Plan.  So this truly is a game changer, we’re excited. This is a big move, especially from New Hampshire. So when we go from 2014, and again my — I think it was in 2015. Bill, if I’m not mistaken, when New Hampshire Legislature? Enacted —

BILL: — legislation in 2015.

CHUCK:  Yeah.

BILL:   Yes.

CHUCK:  So in 2015 of the State legislative session, New Hampshire then enacted its equivalent, which would actually allow the ABLE Savings Account Program to be established in New Hampshire, and that’s now codified in RSA 195-K. And what that essentially does, again in its most basic format, the state legislation states that the Executive Director of the Governor’s Commission on Disability, and the State Treasurer, will administer an ABLE Savings Account Program in the State of New Hampshire. So that’s the quick legislative history of ABLE at the federal level and the State.

SYLVIA:  Thank you. So how will this program work in New Hampshire? You just mentioned that the RSA actually says that you’re going to be co-administering this program, but can you tell us a little bit about what name it’s going to go by, how it’s going to run, the platform, the partners that you may have chosen?

BILL:  Sure. I’ll field that one.  Stable NH is the name of the New Hampshire Able Savings Program. Chuck gave a very good background in terms of both the federal and the state legislative history behind that. I think one significant amendment that occurred with the federal legislation subsequent to 2014 was a provision that allowed individuals in one state to open an ABLE account with a program provider in another state. So, in other words, they could go across state lines to establish their own ABLE savings account as long as that other state was allowing residents from other states to join their program. For example, we know that Florida rolled out a program that made it only available to Florida residents as an example. However, other multistate platforms were launched in the years since 2014, and again once the federal legislation allowed people to sort of cross state boundaries to open ABLE accounts, that was a significant milestone for New Hampshire as well. Once that even occurred Chuck and I, again, spent some time looking at the New Hampshire legislation. We received some guidance that New Hampshire could join onto an existing multistate platform as a result of the way our legislation was written. So at that point, Chuck and I undertook a pretty extensive assessment of the national landscape. And this was just last summer, the summer of 2017, that we really dove into it. We had conference calls, meetings with individuals from other state sponsored platforms, I actually interviewed someone from the State of Vermont to get a sense of what program they had joined and what they were doing, and many of the characteristics that we were focused on related to account features such as the number of different investment options, certainly the account management fees that would be involved. We were looking for the New Hampshire way, the lowest cost option for our citizens to establish ABLE accounts, and as we conducted our assessment — and at that time there were probably eight to ten different programs that were in place nationally, that were either an individual state platform, or a multistate platform open to other states. And so as a result of looking again at cost, investment options, and some conversations that we had in particular with the folks who operate the program in Ohio, which is also called STABLE, but it’s STABLE Ohio, we became aware that in Ohio, in particular they, in addition to everything having to do with the accounts themselves, the Ohio Program offered an opportunity for their partner states to participate in an advisory commission on a quarterly conference call that folks could dial in from other states who are part of their overall program and provide feedback in terms of what experiences their constituents were having with establishing accounts, certainly provide feedback from those citizens and those constituents to request enhancements, or improvements, or changes to what was being offered through the STABLE Program, and that advisory commission opportunity, particularly in the context of being able to provide feedback to the ultimate program administrator, was very important to us. And so after spending several months conducting this assessment and doing all types of research, we concluded that the Ohio Program, the Ohio STABLE Program, truly was the platform that was best suited to New Hampshire residents. And so a date I’ll always remember, October 25th, 2017, we brought — Chuck and I brought an item to the Executive Council requesting approval to join the Ohio STABLE Program, and we celebrated on the 25th, because the Council unanimously approved New Hampshire’s joining the STABLE Program. So when individuals log on or go to our website,, they will see New Hampshire labeling, the will see the state seal, they will see the logo of the Governor’s Commission on disability, but if they go to the very bottom of the page, the landing page, they’ll see in fine print that the accounts themselves are really being offered through the New Hampshire STABLE Program, but are accounts of the Ohio STABLE platform, so to speak. So that’s really the distinction in terms of having something that has the New Hampshire label on it, but really has a — what we’ve discovered is a very proven, well-established, well-regarded nationally, platform that’s being offered by Ohio. In fact, Chuck can confirm this, but we — in terms of the number of ABLE accounts that have been opened nationwide across all of the programs, the Ohio STABLE platform constitutes more than half of all of the accounts that have been opened nationwide. We certainly also got some great feedback from our colleagues in Vermont, in the Vermont Treasury’s Office. So as a result of all this assessment we’ve really found that it’s been a terrific fit. One more validation of our program, and then I’ll stop rambling, is that at the time we launched our program on December 15 there were already 12 New Hampshire who had opened — who had gone across state lines, gone into Ohio, and had opened accounts with Stable Ohio, and so that was yet another, I think, validation for us that it was certainly a program that was well-suited to New Hampshire residents. And I’m happy to report that as of year-end we’ve doubled those 12 accounts and we now have 24 in place since we launched on December 15. So the last thing I’ll point is that we have had a tremendous collaboration with our colleagues in Ohio, who are the officials that administer the program. And, in fact, one of our key contacts in Ohio is someone who has got a plenty lengthy history as an advocate for those with disabilities in Ohio. So he certainly speaks Chuck language. I’m learning the language, but we’re delighted to be able to partner with Ohio. And I can tell you that other states that have joined are Georgia, Missouri, Kentucky, Vermont, as I mentioned earlier, and they’re in the process of bringing New Mexico and I think Arizona —

CHUCK:   Arizona.

BILL:   — on board as well. So the STABLE platform as a brand itself is again well-regarded nationally, and is gaining a lot of stream, and we’re happy to be a part of that. Sorry I spoke so long on that one.

SYLVIA:  No, that’s great.

BILL:   I’m passionate too.

SYLVIA:  Great. Thank you, Bill, for that passionate explanation about why we’re using the Ohio platform. Chuck, I’ve heard you speak about the launch of this program on several occasions now with great enthusiasm. Why is this such an important opportunity for individuals with disabilities?

CHUCK: Yeah, you know, and again Sylvia, a great question. You know, when the enabling legislation at the federal level was signed in 2014 it truly was a game changer, and I’ve used that term many times because I sincerely believe it is a game changer. You know, when you live in the so-called community with those with disabilities there are certain buzzwords that we always hear, can someone have more than 2000, that’s like the — or 2500, or you know I want to give my child or my grandson a gift, can I give them a gift? Do I have to give them a birthday card with cash in it? Or I have a sibling who, you know, is a little bit short on his rent this month, and obviously it’s a person with a disability, can I pay that rent for him? So there’s always been this, I mean I hate to use the term this “angst” around exactly, you know, he or she is receiving these federal benefits can we give them cash or do we have to give them cash? That’s where the rules have all changed. Essentially what STABLE NH does, obviously following ABLE, is that the assets in the account do not affect eligibility for federal or means tested benefits programs like SSI and Medicaid. So there it is. So you can now have upwards near, as of a few days ago, upwards near annually $15,000 a year which can go into a STABLE NH account and it will not affect the federal benefits that you receive. To me, I think, as we hear more and more about STABLE NH, that’s where the enthusiasm is, because that layer of angst of what can I do with this money? Can I get money? That’s all now alleviated, and again I would defer to Bill on this, and over the lifetime of an ABLE account I believe it’s 400 and — I know that — is it 445?

BILL:  Well actually it’s an interesting question.

CHUCK:  Right.

BILL:  What I’ve discovered is that each state has its own limit in terms of the maximum amount and ironically, as the State Treasurer and the Administrator of the state’s College Savings Plan, each state’s limit for ABLE maximum balance is actually determined by the maximum balance of the College Savings Plan that’s been set.

CHUCK:    Oh, that’s interesting.

BILL:        Exactly.

CHUCK:   Okay. So I didn’t know.

BILL:     And so I can — I’m happy to tell you that New Hampshire’s maximum limit for a College Savings Plan is $500,000.

CHUCK:    So I learned something today.

BILL:  We’re a little higher than Ohio actually, which is a good thing.

CHUCK:    So, again, when you look at the life of an ABLE account, that’s a good amount of money that can now be saved over the lifetime with a cap of 500,000.

BILL:   Right. And since I’m a numbers guy, I actually figured out how many years it would take to accumulate $500,000, if the annual limit were held at 15,000 a year, it would take 33 1/3 years of contributing $15,000 annually to that limit.

CHUCK:  Well thank you for doing that. That’s wonderful. So again, that to me, again you know, you’ll hear it when it comes to STABLE, you can invest without losing benefits, and it also empowers individuals with disabilities, because what — you know, and we will, you know, obviously talk about this probably in a few minutes, but the account is actually owned by the person with a disability and there’s a debit card, a reloadable debit that’s also associated with the account. So it’s empowering individuals to spend their money with the debit card without fear of losing it, and again it all plays into the overall plan when we level the playing field, it’s a game changer. It was — when the federal legislation came about it was trying to mimic the College Savings Plan, the benefits that were for college, and now these benefits are now available to those with disabilities.

SYLVIA:  So who is eligible to have an ABLE account?

BILL:  I’ll take that one.

CHUCK:  Sure.

BILL:  So as a starting point, the individual has to have had the onset of their disability by the age of 26, and I’ll clarify that with an example. Sometimes the disability, the onset of that disability, occurred prior to age 26, but it might not have been diagnosed until after age 26. So one example that would qualify is an individual whose disability was not diagnosed until the age of 30, but the physician can document that the onset of that disability began before the age of 26, and even if that individual waits five years from the age of 30 to open their ABLE account and they are now age 35, as long as the onset was before age 26 they’re fine, they can go ahead. There are — once you get past that initial hurdle, so to speak, there are three distinct criteria, and one of the three, only — and one of the three can be met. The individual needs simply to be eligible to receive SSI or SSDI. They don’t actually have to be receiving it, just eligible to receive it as one criteria. In addition, they need to have one of the conditions that are listed in the Social Security Administration’s list of compassionate allowances conditions, which is something that Chuck is much more of an expert on than I am. And then thirdly, there is a self-certification component where the individual needs to be able to, or the person who is enrolling on their behalf, needs to be able to attest and demonstrate that the individual has a marked and severe functional limitation. So any one of those three criteria, not all of them together, any individual one would qualify someone to be a beneficiary or open a STABLE NH account.

CHUCK:   And if I could follow up with that? You know, we — with any piece of legislation we try to do a good job. I want to just add, I don’t — you know, we try to look at what the legislative intent here. It would seem to me, in my opinion, I mean look at the legislative intent of ABLE, it truly is to encourage the opening of accounts. So when we see, like Bill had so eloquently stated, what are the three criteria. I mean so, you know, we have the first two which are pretty, you know, factual. But then we have self-certification, which implies to me that if you’re an individual, even if you don’t meet other — I mean the other two criteria, you could self-certify. And to me, again, that really speaks to the intent of the legislation as to where we want this to truly, truly appeal and be a resource to the masses. It’s — you know, to be able to self-certify and keep all of the paperwork inhouse, so to speak, you don’t have to send it in.  You don’t have to send the doctor you’re just certifying that you fit the criteria. I will tell you I have not opened an account on STABLE, but I’ve gone through some of the eligibility questions, and they’re, you know — and I purposely tried to knock myself out, but again you know, there were certain questions I would say no I don’t have this, no I don’t have this, no I — but again when I got to the last question regarding self-certification, again the door was open. So, again, it really goes to in my opinion what would be legislative intent to — that this is a resource. I don’t think the ambition here is to say no at the federal level, but to say yes.

BILL:  And for the benefit of those listening too, I would add and reinforce, and we’ll probably repeat this several times, but going to the website,, across the top there is a series of individual words or links that they can click on, and one of them at the very top, I think on the left side, is eligibility. And when they click on that link they’re immediately taken to sort of an eligibility quiz that allows them to look at different criteria that help them to be reassured that they meet the criteria to be eligible to open that account. And then, you know, if somebody really got hamstrung at that point because there was some gray area, or some confusion or uncertainty, there’s also a toll-free number at the very bottom that’s listed on the website. When people call that phone number they will not get a recorded response. There will be an individual who will absolutely pick up the phone and speak to them, and interact with them. And this is where I’m going to put in one more plug for why we chose Ohio (LAUGHING IN BACKGROUND), because I didn’t cover it earlier. One of the things that we found out about Ohio is that unlike other states who simply expanded their college savings call centers, they simply added more staff. Now those people are experts on college savings plans and what constitutes a qualified college expense, what Ohio did was they brought in people who were trained to communicate with those with disabilities. And that was a huge plus for us in terms of selecting Ohio, knowing that there were call center representatives who had that particular expertise, and that really distinguishes the STABLE Program as well.

SYLVIA:   So there are individuals such as with a cancer diagnosis who may have a Social Security eligibility period, but it may be time limited. Is a STABLE account something that they should consider?

CHUCK:  It’s a great question. If the cancer is listed on the compassionate allowances, then by all means. If that type of cancer fits on that allowance, by all means. Also regarding — and again, that’s a novel question for me, but applying principles that we understand with self-certification, so long as they can certify, because there are times when there’s things such as temporary disabilities, but so long as they can certify that it’s going to reoccur for more than a year, then yes they would be able to self-certify.

SYLVIA:  And can —

CHUCK:  And from what, you know, we’ve looked at so far.

SYLVIA:   Thank you. So you mentioned that there are limits on contributions, annual contributions, of about 15,000, I believe, currently. Are there limits on withdrawals?

BILL:  Only up to whatever your balance is. You can’t overdraw your account, just like at the bank, but other than that there are no limits on withdrawals. And I know Chuck mentioned the prepaid debit card, which is called the STABLE card, but the debit card it doesn’t actually access the full amount in the individual’s STABLE account. The way the debit works is it has to be preloaded with a portion of the balance that’s in the account, and that can be done online. And therefore what can be charged against the debit card is essentially limited to the amount that was transferred from the STABLE account, but then the debit card can be reloaded on a recurring basis so that people can constantly use it for expenditures. The other benefit of the STABLE card is that it provides kind of an itemization of what purposes the expenditures were used for, which again is great when it comes filing — you know, time to file taxes and do that type of thing. And we’ll talk — we’ll probably talk about this later, but ultimately it’s the IRS that’s going to look to make the determination as to whether an expenditure was qualified or not.

SYLVIA:   And that is what we’re going to talk about next, is can you give us some explanation of what are the allowable expenditures?

CHUCK:    Sure. Again, it’s as we said we have very broad housing, rent, basic living expenses, education, transportation, assistive technology, for those what we now refer to as QDE’s, Qualified Disability Expenses. So, again, a very broad range. You know, and I did want to follow up with the pre-loadable debit card. Another great feature, and again when we tout Ohio, from my perspective looking at — to ensure protection and empowering for those with a disability, if the person with a disability has that preloaded card we are essentially, and I’m not — I don’t mean this to be paternalistic, but I’m really looking at it from the broad spectrum, they gain so much independence that they can now use this card, that they’re not going to a sibling, or perhaps a parent, to say can I buy this. Essentially we’re turning to the person and saying hey, there’s X amount on this card, this is what you can use it on, and to me that’s incredibly empowering. And then there’s also a flipside, and this is — there’s always a, I hate to call it a negative, but is we have to be beware. There are individuals, because we’ve seen statutes or bills that have come about as of late, which prey upon individuals with disabilities or prey upon the elderly. This is a safeguard against that because with a limit what are the odds that you’re going to expend everything that’s in the ABLE account, because I mean a worse case scenario what’s on the loadable debit card could, but again there’s that safeguard. And that’s an important feature. Another, according to Ohio, there are certain establishments that are red flagged. So, they refer to it as adult entertainment. So Foxwoods, you cannot use this debit card at Foxwoods. Again, those built in safeguards which not only empower the individual with disabilities, but also protects us as a society. That’s — I wanted — you know, as you can see Bill and I have been so entrenched with this, because there’s so much information to share that we try to weep it all in as best as we can.

SYLVIA:   So if you’re tracking as a family member a qualified disability expense, how do you track those expenses? Who is going to ask whether or not you spent it appropriately?

BILL:  Well, as a particular matter, again this is similar to what you see with a College Savings 529 account, the only circumstance in which you’re going to have to account to anybody what you use the expenditures for is if you get audited by the IRS. That’s really what it comes down to. So I keep very good tax records for everything that I do. So I think it’s important for someone who has both the 529 College Savings Account and a 529A STABLE Savings Account to keep good records, because the IRS can come knocking on your door five years after the tax year that you, you know, that you filed for. So in 2017 they can ask you about what you did in 2014. So that’s really where that type of accounting and recordkeeping is going to be helpful. So as administrators of the STABLE NH Program, we’re not asking for accountholders to account to us. The Ohio program administrators aren’t asking people to account to them, it’s really making sure that the accountholder, and really again it could be the parent, guardian, or power of attorney, is maintaining and retaining good tax records so that if the IRS decides they want to do an audit four or five years from now somebody can reach into a folder and say okay, here’s the list of expenditures that ABLE funds back in 2016 or 2014, what have you.

SYLVIA:   So it sounds like a real plus for the use of the STABLE card then, where it tracks them, that would be really helpful.

CHUCK:   I would agree with that.

BILL:    That’s a great benefit of the card.

CHUCK:  Yeah, it’s because they’re actually giving you that itemization, and if you have the backup documentation it’s going to make it that much easier.

SYLVIA:   So, can you explain the benefits of an ABLE account for somebody that might already have a trust, or how the two might work together, a special needs trust?

CHUCK:  Yeah, would you like me to —

BILL:  Well, I have — I think I have a very rudimentary understanding of it. So I’ll —

CHUCK: I can supplement —

BILL:  — I’ll go to the high level and then Chuck can come to my rescue. The — as I understand it, the range of the types of expenditures that are permissible with an ABLE account is a broader array than what you have with a — and I’m already forgetting the name, a qualified —

CHUCK:  Disability —

BILL:    — disability trust —

CHUCK:   — or special needs trust.

BILL:  Special needs trust, excuse me, yeah. So I know that the range of the types of expenditures that are permissible gives the individual more latitude and more flexibility with a STABLE account versus a special needs trust. And that’s the extent of what I know. So I’ll hand it back to Chuck (LAUGHING IN BACKGROUND).

CHUCK: You know, could you rephrase the question? Or state it again, please?

SYLVIA:  So, can you explain what a benefit of having an ABLE Account might be for an individual who already has a special needs trust?

CHUCK:   Again, the way I anticipate it would work is that the special needs trust and the ABLE, the State of New Hampshire account, will work in concert with each other. It’s like a peaceful coexistence. And Bill is right, when you look at a special needs trust you’re going to be very limited as to what you can make those qualified disbursements on. When you look at the STABLE New Hampshire, it’s much more broader. You’re not going to — with a special needs trust you have a trustee, with an ABLE account you don’t have that trustee. So that’s incredible flexibility. There are times in a trust where you may not be able to make a disbursement without going to the trustee first, and the trustee may want to take it one step further and perhaps go to get a court order on it. You’re not going to envision that with an ABLE Account. So again, the ABLE Account gives you that broader flexibility to spend on the spot, so to speak, as opposed to a special needs trust.

SYLVIA:   No I know that there’s a — there comes a point in time potentially with the balance in your STABLE Account, so if you got to $100,000 that could potentially impact not your eligibility but your ability to collect Social Security, correct?

CHUCK:    That is correct. That’s — the whole issue around 100,000 revolves around SSI. So you’re 100 percent right. And again, a novel question, but from what I — from what we have understood, if the balance in the STABLE New Hampshire account goes over 100,000 you’re not going to lose your benefits, but they are going to be suspended temporarily. And for purposes of looking at it as a resource, Social Security is going to look at that amount that’s over the 100,000. So if you have 101,000 in the account they’re looking at 1000 as the resource, which now has to be recalculated. But again, it’s not a question of losing it, it’s just suspending it. And from what we understand, you can now spend that down. So if you bring it below the $100,000 limit the benefits are reinstituted.

SYLVIA:   So it’s something for families to keep in mind if they’re using their account towards, you know, they have to purchase a new modified vehicle, et. cetera —

CHUCK:    Correct.

SYLVIA:   — so that to just realize that that could happen if they hit that ceiling before they make that expenditure.

CHUCK:    That’s actually —

BILL:    Right. And the goal definitely, as Chuck said, is to allow the balance to remain above that 100,000 for as short a time as possible, because again that’s the time during which the benefits would be suspended. So you want to get them reinstated as quickly as possible.

SYLVIA:   Thank you.

BILL:        You’re welcome.

SYLVIA:   And so if someone is interested in opening an account, how do they set one up?

CHUCK:    Would you like me to —

BILL:        The website is —

CHUCK:    I think we both will say —

BILL:        We’ll plug it again. STABLE


BILL:     There’s a — in fact, Chuck has spoken to a couple of people who have already opened accounts and I think one did tell you it took like three or four minutes, I think?

CHUCK:    Yeah, it was — we were at the launch on December 18th at the Executive Council Chambers, and I was able to recount a story from a woman who opened an account on behalf of her daughter over the weekend. She said it was seamless, it was easy. I think it took her about 10 to 15 minutes. I mean literally —

BILL:  Oh, I was exaggerating.

CHUCK:    Yeah, well but still it’s within there. And I — from what Ohio has told us also, there is a YouTube video of a person opening an account and again, what it was told to me, limited in their manual dexterity, and I think they did it in 19 minutes on their own. It’s a very, very easy website. So that is the best way to open it,, and it takes you right through it. We have received questions as to whether or not you can do it snail mail or do it with a paper application, you can’t. We suggest that you really use the website, because once you establish an account on the website you’re going to be able to make those transfers over to the debit card. If you don’t have an account set up online, then you’re technically going to have to send that money by mail, I’m assuming, to Ohio and they will make the necessary deposit. So again, it’s a possibility, but again in this world of paying bills online and whatever else we do online, I think this is just a natural progression to — really the plug is to do it online.

BILL:  Yeah, and I’ll piggyback on that too. One of the other elements is, of course, the investment selection and allocations within the different — there’s five different investment options that are available. And so even if someone were to, and we hope this is really a very rare occurrence, but if somebody were to sort of open by paper a STABLE account, when it comes time to make those investment selections they still have to go in and do that online. So people, whether they open the account online or open it through paper and through mail, they’re going to have to create a user profile and password anyway to make those investment selections, to load the STABLE card with funds, so it just makes sense and it’s much more efficient to just go ahead and open the account online.

SYLVIA:  So you have identified that individuals with disabilities can open their own accounts, but if they’re not able to and they haven’t authorized legal representative, or a caregiver, or guardian who is appointed, is it only one person who manages the account or can multiple people manage the account?

BILL:   As I understand it, I believe it’s one individual.

CHUCK:    One person.

BILL:    So it’s a parent, or a guardian, or someone with power of attorney. So there aren’t multiple individuals, I guess, who could kind of oversee the opening and the administration of an ABLE account. And, you know, that certainly speaks to one consideration that people should have in mind when they’re opening accounts online is that although there’s one person who is going to be designated at the outset, either as the parent, or the guardian, or the power of attorney, it’s good to be mindful of if something were to happen to that individual that the beneficiary, the individual with the disability, has at least in mind someone that they could either designate subsequently through a change in power of attorney. I don’t know if people get to designate their own guardians. Chuck’s the attorney in the room, but certainly for parents and guardians to have that discussion with the beneficiary so that there’s an awareness that if for whatever reason the individual who serves as the individual who coordinates the account for the beneficiary, that there’s an awareness that if someone else needs to stand in for that person that some thought has already gone into that ahead of time.

CHUCK:   And following what Bill said on the website, in the resource portion, there is a limited power of attorney form in there. So if the person with a disability would like to name someone, to designate someone, as their agent to act on their behalf as it pertains to their STABLE account, the form is right there. And it’s a limited power of attorney, which means most — there are power of attorneys which are very broad and they can transact business on behalf of any individual, but limited means it only pertains to

SYLVIA:   Thank you both. I really appreciate you giving us this overview, and I know this will be very helpful information for individuals and families who are looking to really jump on this opportunity here in New Hampshire. Again, the website is STABLENH.COM.


CHUCK:    They said in stereo.

BILL:   And I’ll say, Chuck and I are really looking forward, we’ve scheduled a number of different appearances and events, and conferences, that we’ll attend. So we’re looking forward to taking the Chuck and Bill show on the road. But this is our first opportunity to promote the STABLE NH Program, and we really appreciate, Sylvia and Jenn, your offering to provide this webcast — or podcast, excuse me, opportunity for us. So we thank you for that as well.

CHUCK:   And if I could just add again, a special thanks to both of you, Sylvia and Jenn, for this opportunity. You know, when I look back at the launch at the Governor — in the Council Chambers, where the Governor was present, and obviously legislators, advocates, it was just a great, great day. You know, what I said at the podium I truly mean, this isn’t my program. This isn’t Bill’s program. This really is the community’s program, and we need, and we want, to work with as many individuals and entities as possible to get the word out, because right now this is a great opportunity for New Hampshire and we can really move this forward.